Believe in Positive Discipline but Having Trouble with Class Meetings

Q: I read Positive Discipline this summer and fell in love with the concept. We have been in school for 14 days and I am ready to quit! I teach 16 second graders in a public school in Mississippi . There is no one else in my area doing Positive Discipline that I know. I started the first day stating that our one big rule is The Golden Rule. I taught them procedures for how we go through  the day. They decided on procedures which would be respectful and keep each other safe and able to learn. We formed a circle the first day but still haven't gotten it right. They talk during class meetings, yell unkind remarks and give each other "looks" the whole time. I have been very firm and kind but lately my patience has been so taxed that I've been punitive-making them complete work during recess or center time, not allowing them water or restroom breaks when they can't act appropriately in line. These kids are used to punishment and being yelled at by authority (like their parents and teachers).They do not seem to be responding at all to anything I do. I am ignored until I raise my voice. I wait for them to be quiet but we end up wasting a lot of time and never getting anywhere on time or getting work done.

We have had one good class meeting where most of the kids listened and participated. I praise the ones who are following procedures in the classroom and hallways but several forget within a few seconds and become disruptive.

I believe in Positive Discipline and desperately want it to work. Please give me some words of encouragement and advice on getting control of my class!

Thanks, Regan

A: Dear Regan,

My name is Laurie Prusso.  I am one of the people at Positive Discipline who answer questions that are submitted.  I am an instructor of child development at a community college in California and am the parent of 6 children.  I hope my ideas can help you.

Your students are so very lucky that you are dedicated to being kind and firm, and to building a real community of learners.  My first impression, after reading your brief letter is, “Wow, what a great start!”  When children have always experienced more authoritarian styles, we can expect that bringing about change will take at least a little while.  I would imagine that it will take three months or more of really consistent self-control on your part. Don't get discouraged.... but do slow down.  Remember, you aren't the only one trying new things here. It is interesting how many teachers get discouraged and quit doing class meetings if their students don’t get and use the skills right away, but they wouldn’t think of giving up on reading or math if the students didn’t get those skills right away.

Sometimes we adults are so goal oriented that we look for the result before we think about what we need to produce success. Students who have never really learned how to work in a democratic classroom have to learn lots of skills before they can have successful class meetings.  I think your frustration comes from realizing that the children don't have the skills yet (hence the looks, the unkind remarks and the talking during class meetings). Those skills (and tools) include: learning to be helpful not hurtful, listening skills, creating a win- win environment, mistakes are opportunities to learn, class jobs, positive time out.  Sometimes we think of class meetings as a carefully built house. Before you build a house, you need to do some ground work, and to lay a solid foundation.  If the ground is not prepared, the house will not be stable. That is what you are challenged with now.  I'm guessing you have the Positive Discipline in the Classroom Manual.  If you look at page 35, titled "The House of the Class Meeting." Under the "house" you will see a set of skills and tools that help lay a foundation for successful class meetings. You could look at that list and ask yourself, "Which of these skills are my 2nd graders missing?"  Do not be disappointed if you find that they are missing many if not all of them. That would be normal.  Ask yourself the question, "If my students had all of these skills, how much easier would it be to teach and to have class meetings?" The manual (and the book) have activities to teach your kids each of these skills. Don't rush it. Take a break from the formal class meetings for now.  Practice just teaching the skills. The manual offers activities for the kids to learn by doing because we know that 2nd graders (or adults for that matter) don't learn these skills by being "told" what to do... they learn by discovering and thinking.  Many teachers teach the foundation skills in a circle.  So for example instead of class meetings you could get in a circle, do a round of compliments and then use a "foundation skill" activity.  If you do this daily you will gradually see progress. (Remember...just one small step at a time).

In your class meetings, try to really let them be responsible for developing the norms.  If you gave them the idea of the “Golden Rule” and as you say, they decided on procedures which would be respectful and keep each other safe and able to learn, then that is your foundation.  Everything else can be reflected through that. Some teachers ask, “How many think we are keeping this rule right now? How many think we aren’t?” Just asking the question and letting the kids express their opinion by raising their hand in response to each question is often enough to get them back on track. When you come together each day, have your compliments and then begin to discuss your agenda, you can invite the children to reflect how things are working.  Using reflective listening, you can acknowledge what they are actually experiencing and then involve them in developing solutions.  This is how real learning occurs.

Expectations are important.  Work with the class to develop high expectations and ways for them to know individually how their choices and behavior influence the group.  You might want to have them explain how they learned something, like riding a bike, and then relate it to learning in school.  Then have them actually create their own model of learning.

I wonder what your tolerance level is for excitement, interest, curiosity, and noise.  One thing we know about children is that they learn best when they are excited, interested, and curious and yes—noisy.  If you interpret these behaviors as being off task or keeping them from learning, you can do a little research, or experiment with these ideas.  Perhaps you can think of a time when you learned to do something really great by being actively involved in it.  Second graders have a lot of energy and are usually very social.  If you can see these behaviors as part of the way they learn and not as misbehavior, it might help you.

Completion of class work and other school related work will improve as the Positive Discipline takes effect and the children begin to develop their self-control and classroom community.  You may have to let up on those for a while (I know, teachers hate that idea) while you develop the community. The school work will follow and will be more valuable because they will be doing it by conscious choice. If you fall back into rewards, withdrawal of privileges etc. they will not be able to “believe” that you are really involving them and trusting them to solve their own problems.

It sounds like you are very aware of your students and notice when they are doing good things too. This is a time to encourage them.  Be careful though, because there is a difference between praise and encouragement. And sometimes the best encouragement is a wink of the eye or saying “I appreciate your help.”  Verbally acknowledging “good behavior” in front of the group often backfires in worse behavior the next time and resentment by those who did not get praised.  One way to deal with encouragement is to ask at the class meeting, “Tell me a time when things went really well.  What was going on?  What were you doing?”  Then let them describe effective transitions, good learning habits, and good relationships.  It is more helpful than “telling” a child what they did right.

Regan, you are a courageous woman to take the initiative and to be willing to try to do it alone.  I hope that some of these ideas will help you.  I am going to recommend that you look for a Positive Discipline class or workshop in your area.  The website is http://www.posdis.org/page5.html .  I also recommend that you read Positive Discipline in the Classroom.  I think it will give you many of the answers you are looking for.  But last, I will recommend one of my favorite books for bringing about change, You Can’t Say I Can’t Play, by Vivian Paley. I think you will find great things you can use in all of these resources.

Please feel free to contact us for more help.  We are glad that you are making a difference in the lives of these children.

Laurie Prusso, Livermore, CA 

Answer No. Two

Dear Regan,
    I am a Certified Positive Discipline Associate, Dina Emser, and I live in Illinois.  I’ve taught every grade level, kindergarten through the 8th grade, and I’ve done class meetings with each of these grade levels.  I can remember vividly what it was like to begin this process, not knowing much about it.  I knew what I wasn’t supposed to say or do, but I didn’t have the words and actions in my head to replace all of my old “stuff”.  I now do Positive Discipline work full time (part of my business is also coaching parents, teachers, and business people about how to build more cooperation at home, in schools, and in the work place.)  So, I train teachers about class meetings as part of my business.
    I have been thinking for a few days now about what might be most helpful for you to hear.  Many times when teachers begin doing class meetings, they are too permissive.  I say to teachers all the time, “You are sharing your power, not giving it away.”  You need to find your own right style, and this may take some time and trial and error.  Remember, mistakes are opportunities to learn, for you too!  Try to model this for your class, and stay calm.  Trust the process.  If you’ve set it up with the children, and it sounds like you had one good experience with a meeting (congratulations!), you need to hang in there.  When things feel out of hand, sit down, be calm, and turn it back to the children as much as possible. You might say, “Things aren’t going too well right now. Who can see what the problem is?” Then brainstorm for solutions. Add things to the agenda yourself that you want some help with.
    Let’s face it, Regan, none of us has been raised in this type of an atmosphere, and we don’t have that much practice focusing on solutions instead of blame or punishment.  It will take a while for you and your students to believe that you all have the power to create an atmosphere based on kindness and firmness, dignity and mutual respect!  
    I encourage you to recognize the commitment you have made, and the small steps you and your class have made in a positive direction.  Continue to look for what is working instead of only at what you have not yet mastered.
    I have seen the power of class meetings to transform children, teachers, classrooms, and schools.  You were attracted to this program for a reason – stay with it.  Give it some more time, and if you need to hear a friendly voice, call me.
    Best wishes and my sincere appreciation for your willingness to ask for help and to try again!
    Dina Emser
--
Dina Emser, M.A., CPDA, CCPC
Positive Discipline Parent Coach/Educational Consultant
Helping parents and teachers create more peace at home and at school.